- The Upper Moshiach ben Yosef - This is the M"T (The highest angel in the heavenly sphere), they are in the upper war against Armilus (in particular in the war of Gog and Magog)
- The Lower Moshiach ben Yosef - This is one Jew in every generation that merits by his actions to work for the salvation of Israel, actions of salvation and raising the banner of Torah with personal sacrifice, until he reaches the level of 999 in Yesod (another conversation in itself)
- All Beit Yisrael - Any Jew who in his actions takes up a part of the tasks of Moshiach ben Yosef (which are the tasks of the Keitz Meguleh listed before), big or small, according to the particular soul.
I would add that that for the second level, of the individual in every generation, there is a sub-level. This is the final Moshiach ben Yosef. This is the Moshiach that will be revealed in the year 66 mentioned in the Zohar. This is the Moshiach that will not die.
Shalom Aleichem
ReplyDeleteWhen you say that the final Moshiach ben Yosef will be revealed in the year 66, do you mean 66 years after 5708?
Baruch Yaakov
I do not mean 66 years after 5708. Do not make an assumption that the Zohar speaks in a pshat manner and you just need to add 66 to any significant year.
ReplyDeleteShavua Tov
I misunderstood what you were saying.
ReplyDeleteWhen you said: "This is the Moshiach that will be revealed in the year 66 mentioned in the Zohar. This is the Moshiach that will not die."--I thought you were saying that this final Moshiach ben Yosef would be revealed in the year 66 (66, since it was in future tense and in being in reference to the years after the liberation of the land and the current establishment of the "State of Israel").
I guess I was reading remez into what you said. My apologies. Though, 5708 was a very significant year!
Eliyahu Ha'Navi, Bimheira, yavo aleinu...
Baruch Yaakov
The year 5708 was indeed extraordinarily significant, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
ReplyDeleteThis revelation of the year 66 will be fairly obvious, though some will try to ignore it.
Please do not take away from this blog that Moshiach will be revealed in 5774 (5708+66).
No, you are right. I do not believe we can know the exact time when Moshiach will arrive (like saying in 5774). I believe it will be like when a robber comes unexpectedly and breaks in. Some will be prepared, some will not. But to be sure, many will be surprised and still, some will try to ignore the obvious.
ReplyDeleteIt will not be that sudden, but correct, many will (most likely) not believe in the obvious, as that is part of the Tikkun that Moshiach is here for: a change of our state of mind.
ReplyDeleteI hope you don't mind me conversing with you, G. It's pretty lonely where I'm at. And I have to look at your other posts soon, when I get a chance.
ReplyDeleteOne last question. You will probably know this: Is it actually stated anywhere that Moshiach ben Yosef and Moshiach ben Dovid HAVE to be different persons?
I guess in my last comment, my wording would have had reference to Moshiach ben Dovid, who, as we know, will come suddenly and with the clouds of shamayim.
Another problem I see is the fact that, most assuredly, a majority in Am Yisrael are going to believe in a "Moshiach ben Yosef" that is not truly Moshiach.
Just like past claimants, who have ended up dishearting Yisrael, so will another self-proclaimed Moshiach ben Yosef. I think one like this will arise just before the final Geulah. He will lead astray many.
It is clear that Eliyahu will come before Moshiach.
For sure, Eliyahu ha sheliach comes, and first presents Moshiach, and the land is smitten with a curse, and then Eliyahu ha Navi comes and restores all things, and Moshiach redeems Yisrael.
Am Yisrael should be watchful for Eliyahu.
Shalom
Baruch Yaacov, Shalom,
ReplyDeleteFirst off, feel free to post as much as you'd like.
I am not aware of anything that says such explicitly about a separate identity. We are talking about Kabbalistic concepts, and it is best not to get too dogmatic with them. Do not ask Moshiach ben Yosef for his geneology. It will not be necessary to ask Moshiach ben Dovid for his geneology, for his arrival will be miraculous as you have said.
The acceptance of Moshiach ben Yosef is crucial for many reasons. He represents the true Geulah, the Redemption of Truth, and will stand for Truth. Rejection of him is tantamount to rejection of what Hashem wants, as he is the kli for major tikunim that will take place at that time. Recognizing him as Moshe, and following him out of the dessert - This will be one way we can be zocheh for a better Geulah. May Hashem help us to achieve this.
Anything I say regarding Eliyahu at this point would be conjecture on my part. From a free will standpoint, it would seem that if he comes before Moshiach, that not everyone would recognize him for who he is, as that would eliminate free will too early.