- רנו
- 60
- 66
- 72
As I mentioned here, the Geulah at 72 is not really at 72, but some time before that. It is a sort of worst case scenario's Achishenah. We will have a few "easy" chances to cause Geulah Achishenah between now and then, but regardless, we are guaranteed that even at the very end it will be Achishenah.
The reason for that is hidden in the secret of Kol HaTor and Birkat HaChamah.
רנ'ו can be seen as counting from a thousand, like רע'ב. So, the 4 Geulot at 56, 60, 66, 72. The Medina arose at 56.
ReplyDeleteNot sure I get the math. What do you mean by a thousand?
ReplyDeleteThe 1200 are divided in 1000 and 200. This is how Cheshbon רע'ב leads to 72 after 1200.
ReplyDeleteWhile I would think there would be a reference to both 57 and 59, it would seem to me that it would be written explicitly. I think the this birth of Moshiach (the count to 72/100 starting) is more fitting than that birth (like I wrote about in Sprouting of Moshiach). I don't think this has relation to the 1200 of Galus.
ReplyDeleteThat is to say that according to the earlier "birth", it sets the timing for the last 3 steps (60, 66, 72). Whereas this later birth is not indepependently related to these other times (the numbers 60, 66 and 72 are irrelevant)
ReplyDeleteI am not invalidating the other, impressive, perush of רנו - I am just adding another.
ReplyDeleteAside from 2300, is there another peirush for 5708?
ReplyDeleteI obviously don't mean to ignore 1908 + 1880 + 1880, just mean if there is another from the Zohar.
ReplyDeleteI understand what you are saying. Yet, I think 5708 stands out. I would not know how to calculate it from the Zohar - excepting this explanation of רנ'ו.
ReplyDeletePerhaps, then, we are approaching it incorrectly, their relationship is more with תצ"ט ופלגא than to ע"ב and 5727 becomes the Pekidah because davka the Yovel turns it in to 59 instead of 58 (and I wrote the numbers incorrectly before, should have been 56 and 59).
ReplyDeleteRephrasing what you say: Because the previous count "suddenly" reached 500, something had to happen, and the only Mimush of פלגא was to have Pekida before 60.
ReplyDeleteThe ע'ב count gets only real Tokef after the previous count finishes. That is why the Zohar starts at 60. But in the shadow perhaps 56 already counts.
תצ"ט ופלגא מימינא
ReplyDeleteIs that not the distance from the earth to the heavens? We cannot reach the heavens without our שער השמים, no? And how can Adam reach that level without it there before him? It has to finish first, and they had to be two pekidot to keep with the words of the Navi that Yerushalayim be redeemed last.
But what of Nesirah? Does this happen at 506 as it appears to be hinted by the Arizal on Shaar Maamarei Rashbi to Va'Era?
ReplyDeleteIt would appear that this is also in 5776 (seven after 500 from the left, and six after 500 from the right, together 13 after 1000).
ReplyDeleteCorrect me if I'm wrong, but if this is a "final" Nesirah, then Achor b'Achor no longer is relevant and the year 5800 is not a danger.
ReplyDeleteI made a mistake, it should be 5779, not 5776.
ReplyDeleteBy then the right is far past.
ReplyDeleteIt would seem to me that once the left reaches 506, it would begin, ending when the right catches up.
Remember that we are counting to 499.5, but ending at level # 499... so this would be 506, no?
It is an aspect of the Unity, ה' אחד ושמו אחד, that the Zechira will establish. But it will not yet be, so to say, completely complete in our world.
ReplyDeleteIt would make sense for the Nesirah to coincide with the Zechirah. Why would you think it completes at 1015 and not 1013?
ReplyDeleteYou mean, it is 13 after 999, so 12 after 1000. Could well be.
ReplyDeleteThe Zohar there and the Arizal say its 1013 / 2 = 506 and a half from each side.
ReplyDeleteThat's why I wrote 13.
ReplyDeleteI see it as counting 7 more from each side. That makes 5765 from the right, 5772 from the left.
ReplyDeleteI think it must be later. From what are you counting seven?
ReplyDeletePerhaps what is meant is synomymous to 66 and a half from both sides? That would be 5769/5782.
ReplyDeleteAnd 506 and a half from both sides would give 5771/5783.
ReplyDelete506 on right is 5765
ReplyDelete506 on left is 5772
You are counting 5765 twice for left, right?
(5779-2237)/7 = 506
ReplyDeleteIf there is no double in 5765, there is no trouble in 5772.
ReplyDeleteThe principal count now is to ע'ב. Therefore I proposed we translate 506 to 66. Anyway, in my cheshbon there is little difference. You don't have to double to make trouble. It is the last opportuniy for the Sitra Achra - it will be, unless we do Teshuva.
ReplyDeleteIf the double in 5765 is not necessary, I do not understand why 5772-5776 is dangerous.
ReplyDeleteThere are other considerations.
ReplyDeleteBut in addition, as I said, it is the last opportunity. After this, Chesed will be closing up.
I surely understand what you mean from the numbers, but I am puzzled by your attitude vis a vis 5765... Had Yovel been 1 + 49n, then the gap wouldn't start to close up until the 5780's. But the idea of 5772 is not new.
ReplyDeleteTrue, the "new" Yovel works out much better, but I did not know this before. Thanks for teaching me.
ReplyDeleteYou know the debt of thanks is the opposite direction, and I am trying to clarify my confusion. So the danger approaching is on the level of the GR"A's warning of the Sitra Achra strengthening before its end more than left and right evening out.
ReplyDeleteI'll take it at that.
Regarding the Zohar on 5408, do you have any insight?
I think we have been learning from each other, with much Siata D'Shamaya. Regarding 5708, I have nothing from the Zohar, though I hold on to my 56 perush.
ReplyDeleteEither you mis-read or assumed a typo. I mean 5408.
ReplyDeleteZohar 1:139b,140a in Midrash Neelam. It triggered Shabbtai Tzvi's declaration, and lehavdil, I think it triggered the Shlah HaKadosh going to Eretz Yisrael if I remember correctly.
I do not understand this Midrash Neelam, but I do understand that the 408 years are supposed to be way after Techiat HaMetim of the righteous. The confusion comes from אלף השישי כדקאמרן, whatever that may mean. I am blissfully ignorant about what motivated Shabtai Tzvi, but it is clear that in 5408 none of the dead had risen yet.
ReplyDeleteIt seems explicit to be referring specifically to the year 5408. I have heard a couple of people quote this and say that if we are not zocheh for הזאת, then we will get Tashuvu תשבו, gematria of 5708.
ReplyDeleteJust like the other Zohar about 1200 + 72 is meant to lead us to believe 5100 is a keitz, this is obviously meant to lead us to believe 5408 is a keitz. The question to ponder is why. I think this might have been put there davka to cause the split at 5500 which was caused in part by the Shabbtai Tzvi disaster.
ReplyDeleteNice, תשבו, new to me. But yet, did the dead arise then? Only if you take it allegorically.
ReplyDeleteDo you want to say that the Zohar expressly wanted to create crises like Shabtai Tzvi and what happened in 5100?
ReplyDeleteThe allegory isn't far off, considering the Jewish troops coming from the death camps.
ReplyDeleteRegarding Shabbtai Tzvi's connection:
5100 perhaps is a hidden nature of the sod, but it could be that the Zohar was also in the "business" of "planting" things in the future.
Another example is the letter from the GR"A with the tzivuy only to open it 100 years after his death. I think he was trying to trigger something on some level as well. Are you aware of anyone successfully decoding this letter? It's in HaTekufah HaGedolah after Kol HaTor.
But the Midrash Neelam text seems to speak about the individual returning to his Neshama. Yet, I do like it, as the pasuk itself is quite mat'im to 5708.
ReplyDeleteI never occupied myself with the letter of the GR"A. Did not even read it. Maybe I should?
It's quite the puzzling letter. Definitely worth a look if you haven't seen it.
ReplyDeleteThe part that is easily understandable has an amazing assertion. It says it is written by Hashem.
ReplyDelete