Thursday, January 24, 2008

Erev Rav - Summary

The following is a summary of the defining factors of the Erev Rav and Erev Zeir.

Erev Rav of the Left

  • Religion - Mainly based on belief, if not outright secular. Should not require any action on behalf of the believer.
  • Morals - Morals shall be deduced by human reason alone. "I don't need G-d to tell me how to be a good person".
  • Science - Achievements in science are valued, as it brings understanding, does not necessitate the obligation to any sort of belief.
  • Politics - Separate Religion and State
  • Geulah - "We can make our utopia here and now", there is no "process" of Geulah. They desire to do all the work.

Erev Rav of the Right, the Erev Zeir

  • Religion - Mainly based on action, deeper/outside understanding of Kabbalah/Science is not stressed.
  • Science - Any seeming challenges coming from science are attacked, science is deemed unnecessary/heretical.
  • Politics - Separate Religion and State (by this I mean that there is no desire to eventually come to a "Torah" mode of governing, any religious influence is at most on the "dalet amot" scale)
  • Geulah - "We cannot make our utopia here and now, only Moshiach can, we must wait." There is no "process" of Geulah. They pray for Moshiach to do all the work.


  1. Basically, the haredim and secular are described here. As usual extreems are wrong. Nothing new under the sun.

  2. It is of course more complicated. There are Chareidim not in this category, and these definitions are not restricted to irreligious Jews alone, but extend to other "denominations" and political groupings.

    Our struggle, we must remember, is to affect change in these Jews with these ideas.

  3. Of course much more complicated. Being there is only one pasuk in the Torah about them, over the centuries it is easy to manipulate the meaning of who Erev Rav is. In many cases they are not who many typically point the finger at. In many other cases those who are pointed out as Erev Rav may not even possess a Jewish Neshamah. Understandibly there are many in every group who do not possess the soul of Erev Rav, on the same note there are many who do. As stated either here or on another post, the number of Erev Rav leaving Egypt numbered around 80%. If this is the case, logic dictates that 80% of the sheep and 80% of the leaders are direct decendants or reincarnations of them. I believe this may sadly be the case. One other point, to do with the Neshamah. One can learn many mitzvot, but it does not change the Neshamah. The same goes for Erev Rav, learning tricks does not change the Neshamah ever. It only hides it much more. This is an interesting topic to say the least.

    As far as making a change in these Jews, first we have to clean up the mess that has been created within what we label as religion which has strayed far from derech HaShem. This is an impossible change currently, not that it is not wanted but imho, Erev Rav have hijacked derech haShem. Let's leave it at that for now. Have a wonderful Shabbat. Shabbat Shalom

  4. גילוי,
    There are many rabbis of previous generations who claim that Mashiah will do all the work. There are many sources to support that claim. (I realize that there are many sources to support the other claim as well - I've read much of Eim Habanim Semeicha).
    Can you really say that those Rabbanim are part of the Erev Ze'ir? That seems hard to swallow. Please elaborate.

  5. The lithmus test is simple. Those who use "Moshiach does all" against those who actively walk the paths of redemption, fail it.

  6. Yaak, good question.

    It is of course terribly hard to apply any negative term to any Jew, but due to our point in history, it is absolutely necessary that as a cognizant Jew you become aware of where the lines are drawn, if not by party lines, then by idea-based lines. That is the essence of the Avodah, a mental paradigm shift, rejecting these distorted ideas. I know from reading your blog that this analysis includes a group you are quite fond of. But these ideas, as I have tried to show clearly, are in the way of Geulah. I.e. they are the mental stumbling blocks that we need to clear out of the way. The fact is that some groups hold these stumbling blocks to be core factors of hashkafah. We must separate ourselves from these ideas and try to affect change in these groups.

    Let's imagine what are the situations we are trying to avoid:

    They teach wait for Moshiach to ingather us: So we don't come to Israel, Hashem makes us go to Israel. You don't need imagination for this.

    They teach us to wait for Eliyahu for Sanhedrin: So we reject the current attempt at a Sanhedrin, only to be forced to a situation so bad that we are desparate for their leadership; after the fall of the Erev Rav the Left would be a perfect time to prevent this chain of events from happening.

    They teach us that the entire Geulah is miraculous: They therefore reject the natural process even when to many it is obvious how far in we are (after Kibbutz Galuyot, Sanhedrin, wars, Beit HaMikdash). They then try to kill the truth, Moshiach ben Yosef. This is a setup for what I mentioned in Sprouting of Moshiach. Notice from the rise of the Erev Zeir to the fall of the Right is but a couple of years.

    The success of causing both sides of the Erev Rav to do teshuvah is our zechut in this generation.

    This Sod (from Kol HaTor and the Zohar) that I have brought shows you which side of these arguments to go towards, and what our avodah is. May we all be successful in our avodah, inside and out. Also, please read again my post here:

    Be well

  7. Its intellectually dishonest to tailor the shita of others to fit your critique.

  8. Anonymous, please elaborate on your critique.

  9. in your post you write "they teach us" successive times without writing a makor or identifying who they is. I think I know you might be referring to and your summaries of their position are simply incorrect, but conviently tailored to fit your ctiticism.

  10. OK I think I see the misunderstanding. I am specifically not saying that this is a given group that we can pick up that has all of these opinions. I am saying that such ideas come from this spiritual makor. These ideas can be found from all over. I do not feel that it is necessary to provide examples of which groups teach these opinions as truth.

  11. you do refer to a specific group that the previous poster "is quite fond of" and say their ideas are a stumbling block to geula, a nmost unfortuante and uninformed claim.

  12. Regardless if you prefer not to agree regarding the connection between them and the Erev Zeir as listed here, their history of enabling the success of the Erev Rav is well known. Their approach to religion/geulah is the rationale for this.

  13. another accusation and assertion without a makor. Please cease labeling and casting aspertions on other groups without any Makor.

  14. Mekorot are for Torah. I already provided the mekorot for these ideas. You can read prior posts for the quotations.

    Mekorot are not history lessons. I do not need to provide you a makor showing how Oslo passed due to this party, nor do I need to point to today's news that they will withdraw from the Coalition only if Jerusalem is discussed, but the rest of the country is fair game. The points are there to be connected. Withdrawing from any part of Eretz Yisrael or kicking Jews out of their homes works against Moshiach ben Yosef.


  16. I was davka looking for that story from Arutz Sheva, didn't find it. Thanks

  17. Olmert need not worry. Rav Ovadia is with him.

  18. Troubling on many levels. The similarity to Yeshayahu 41:9 among other things.